by ELROY (Posted Sun, 28 Apr 2013 07:48:25 GMT)
His efficiency has nothing to due with battery capacity loss. Whether he had 3 miles/kWh or 5, the capacity will still be down about 10-20%. That's what he is trying to determine.
I would assert that his low efficiency which causes (apparent) frequent discharge to low SOC is contributing to his battery loss and decreased range (the topic of the thread). He may have had a weaker than average battery to start with, but if he keeps cycling it that hard it will only get worse. It appears to still be within the range Nissan will consider "normal" so I don't think there is any warranty remedy available. UNLESS, he is already doing the more conservative things and then that is a sure sign that there is something wrong like alignment, or dragging brakes. Otherwise it is best thing is to adjust to the hand dealt.
I have noticed with the 2013 that if I charge to 80% in the evening (takes about 75 minutes), in the morning it will start with 79% and the first couple of percent click off pretty quickly to 75-76% in about 2 miles and then it does a bit better. It could have to do with the pack cooling down overnight and then warming up when I drive it. If I took those initial numbers and extrapolated 5% = 2 miles = 40 mile "range" I would be way off. What I see on my standard round-trip commute path of 31.5 miles is about 43% charge when I return home +-2% based on how fast the highway portion was that day. So taking a 35% usage and 31.5 miles I get a full range of 90 miles, and I only plan on going 54 without a charging stop. In 10 years, if I take care of it, that will still be 63 miles and 36 miles respectively and more chargers will be out in the community so it will be easier to opportunity charge.
I also noticed that when I left it at the airport hooked to a chargepoint, the nice graph at the website showed it charged up in an hour, had zero draw until midnight and then spiked back to 6KW for 5 minutes and then dropped back to zero until the pre-heating started later that day. I think the spike happened because I have the timer set from midnight to midnight at 80% and the pack cooled off and "read" less than 80% when the midnight timer expired and started again. So I conclude that charging to 80% does not always mean you start driving with 80% based on the temps.
Looking back at the original question posting.php?mode=quote&f=31&p=287153 and the thread in trouble shooting forum, the good news is that he leased the car. The bad news is the first thing he did was take it from 12 bars to zero bars. The degradation models I have seen have the steepest drop in the first year, and I think the first 4000 miles he worked the battery pretty hard so I am not surprised there is some degradation, without the GID count on every charge cycle it is pretty hard to know exactly what is going on.
I think you don't understand that the reason I am running it down low, including the 2 times to turtle, is BECAUSE I have always suspected something is wrong with my battery. Running it the full range of charge is the only way I can determine what the range actually is. And the fact is, I need to run it to VLBW just to get 50-60 miles, which is what one would reasonably expect to get on a 80% charge. Also, I believe it has been stated there is more harm constantly charging it to 100%, than there is running it to VLBW.
On the other hand, in the interests of preserving the battery, remember the following factors regarding my LEAF:
I have never quick charged the battery.
I rarely charge to 100%, and never let it sit for longer periods at full charge.
It is always in moderate temperatures...never changes from 5 temp bars.
On average, I only charge it about once every 4 days. Not daily!
I think in general, I haven't abused the battery to get significant degradation in only a few months. I really have been afraid to charge it to 100% because I care so much about the health of my battery. The couple times I went from full charge to turtle were probably necessary to insure the pack was not out of balance.
Perhaps others can chime in that running my battery to VLBW isn't bad as a pack that spends more time at 100% SOC.
Yogi62 wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
Yogi62 wrote:
Your efficiency seams low for a mild climate....
I would recommend getting your efficiency up so you don't EVER hit LBW.
I would recommend getting your efficiency up so you don't EVER hit LBW.
His efficiency has nothing to due with battery capacity loss. Whether he had 3 miles/kWh or 5, the capacity will still be down about 10-20%. That's what he is trying to determine.
I would assert that his low efficiency which causes (apparent) frequent discharge to low SOC is contributing to his battery loss and decreased range (the topic of the thread). He may have had a weaker than average battery to start with, but if he keeps cycling it that hard it will only get worse. It appears to still be within the range Nissan will consider "normal" so I don't think there is any warranty remedy available. UNLESS, he is already doing the more conservative things and then that is a sure sign that there is something wrong like alignment, or dragging brakes. Otherwise it is best thing is to adjust to the hand dealt.
I have noticed with the 2013 that if I charge to 80% in the evening (takes about 75 minutes), in the morning it will start with 79% and the first couple of percent click off pretty quickly to 75-76% in about 2 miles and then it does a bit better. It could have to do with the pack cooling down overnight and then warming up when I drive it. If I took those initial numbers and extrapolated 5% = 2 miles = 40 mile "range" I would be way off. What I see on my standard round-trip commute path of 31.5 miles is about 43% charge when I return home +-2% based on how fast the highway portion was that day. So taking a 35% usage and 31.5 miles I get a full range of 90 miles, and I only plan on going 54 without a charging stop. In 10 years, if I take care of it, that will still be 63 miles and 36 miles respectively and more chargers will be out in the community so it will be easier to opportunity charge.
I also noticed that when I left it at the airport hooked to a chargepoint, the nice graph at the website showed it charged up in an hour, had zero draw until midnight and then spiked back to 6KW for 5 minutes and then dropped back to zero until the pre-heating started later that day. I think the spike happened because I have the timer set from midnight to midnight at 80% and the pack cooled off and "read" less than 80% when the midnight timer expired and started again. So I conclude that charging to 80% does not always mean you start driving with 80% based on the temps.
Looking back at the original question posting.php?mode=quote&f=31&p=287153 and the thread in trouble shooting forum, the good news is that he leased the car. The bad news is the first thing he did was take it from 12 bars to zero bars. The degradation models I have seen have the steepest drop in the first year, and I think the first 4000 miles he worked the battery pretty hard so I am not surprised there is some degradation, without the GID count on every charge cycle it is pretty hard to know exactly what is going on.
I think you don't understand that the reason I am running it down low, including the 2 times to turtle, is BECAUSE I have always suspected something is wrong with my battery. Running it the full range of charge is the only way I can determine what the range actually is. And the fact is, I need to run it to VLBW just to get 50-60 miles, which is what one would reasonably expect to get on a 80% charge. Also, I believe it has been stated there is more harm constantly charging it to 100%, than there is running it to VLBW.
On the other hand, in the interests of preserving the battery, remember the following factors regarding my LEAF:
I have never quick charged the battery.
I rarely charge to 100%, and never let it sit for longer periods at full charge.
It is always in moderate temperatures...never changes from 5 temp bars.
On average, I only charge it about once every 4 days. Not daily!
I think in general, I haven't abused the battery to get significant degradation in only a few months. I really have been afraid to charge it to 100% because I care so much about the health of my battery. The couple times I went from full charge to turtle were probably necessary to insure the pack was not out of balance.
Perhaps others can chime in that running my battery to VLBW isn't bad as a pack that spends more time at 100% SOC.